Creating Growth by the Practice of Delegation – AXIOM Insights Podcast

Scott Rutherford:
Welcome to the AXIOM Insights learning and development podcast. I’m Scott Rutherford. This podcast is focused on trends and best practices to support organizational performance through learning. Today, we’re talking about delegation. Many people think about delegation is one of the core skills of a manager. And of course it is. But as we discuss in this episode, delegation is more than that. Delegation skills can improve how individuals engage with suppliers. You can think of it perhaps as a fine line between delegation skills and vendor management skills. It’s also how individuals work with and support their supervisors. So let’s dig into delegation. My guest for this discussion is Joanne Polichetti. Joanne has extensive experience in L&D across a variety of industries. And this conversation touches on one of the learning experiences that she has developed and facilitates, called the Delegation Bootcamp.

Joanne Polichetti:
I am an instructional designer by trade. Now, that’s a mysterious career for some people. But essentially, I develop training programs for businesses that help them to meet their goals. And to help managers and leaders in particular, be the kind of manager that people go home and talk about in a positive way. Because everybody goes home and talks about their boss. But what are they saying? That’s the key. And those are the kinds of skills and practices that I have devoted my career to helping people develop.

Scott Rutherford:
We wanted to talk today about delegation and the development of delegation as a skill. So could you help me understand how people address delegation as a skill set? Both when you’re [in your] early career, perhaps as an individual contributor? What do you stand to learn from developing your skill as a delegator, or your skill as someone who has tasks delegated to them? And how do you develop that skill as your career progresses?

Joanne Polichetti:
It’s a great question. You know, as people move from the individual contributor level, to their first leadership job, yes, everyone needs to learn how to delegate. And the definition of delegation is getting things done through other people… [it’s] a basic definition that works. But it’s so much more than that, as the individual develops as a leader, and you move into your role as a leader, whether it’s your own team being directly responsible for people, or you’re a leader of a team that forms and reforms because you’re a project manager, it is about making sure that the work is distributed to the people who can truly learn from it, do their best and move forward. So as you move along in your career, you’re looking to develop those skills, not only to get the work done, everyone wants to do that. But also how do I get the work done in a way that challenges people, that engages people that promotes innovation and risk taking, and really helps not only me move along in my career as a leader, but helps that individual move along in their career and truly add value to the organization. So delegation is a skill. But really, it’s a practice.

Scott Rutherford:
Let’s explore that a little bit. Because it sounds like an important facet of being able to make effective delegation decisions, then… is going to depend on your understanding as the manager on the capabilities of your bench, what your people are going to be or are likely to be good at.

Joanne Polichetti:
Absolutely. And keeping in mind that they may be good at more than is apparent, more than what you hire them for. So really knowing the people that work with you, really seeing their talents and abilities and asking about them, because again, they may have talents and skills that are not apparent. So they’re not part of their normal job.

That is the key to really helping people develop and grow. And really, it’s a center point of diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, really connecting with people knowing what they have to offer, giving them the opportunities to learn and grow. And delegating is right at the center of that.

Scott Rutherford:
So as we’re talking about delegating tasks, is it possible to break down delegation either by the types of tasks that are delegated? Or maybe by the challenges that might get in the way of delegating effectively? For example, are we helping people not only by matching them with a particular tasks but also by taking into account the obstacles that might get in the way of their ability to execute? like time management or prioritization or that sort of thing? What are the facets of delegation?

Joanne Polichetti:
Yeah, there’s all those components. So whether I’m a project leader or manager of a team, I’ve got this bucket of work that needs to be done. So it’s my job to figure out what’s the best way to build the energy to get this done on time and to the required standard or better, and hopefully, with a bit of innovation, kind of pushing the envelope. So I have my stuff that needs to be done. And then I have my pool of talent that will help me do it. So how do I analyze the job? How do I choose the right people? And also challenge those people not having them do the same old things that I know that they’re good at? Like, the reliable way? That is fine in some cases? But really, how do I help people push and learn and grow? Because that’s where I get the good ideas? That’s where I get the new ideas and the new efficiencies coming in?

Scott Rutherford:
And also, how do you have people who trust you and that you trust to take that assignment and, and perhaps in the best spirit to write because I’ve certainly worked with folks who have gotten an assignment from a superior and said, Well, let me know if you’re familiar with the old adage of the seagull management with your flies overhead and poops on everything. And so battling that perception, as someone who is trying to manage assignments is going to be important. How do you how do you advise people to approach delegation and build the trust and have that conversation?

Joanne Polichetti:
I think that that trust is absolutely the key to delegation. It’s a number one challenge that leaders face and delegating, am I going to trust this person to do the work? Am I going to trust them to do it as well as I do? And let’s face it, everybody has a different propensity to trust. Some people naturally trust people. That’s cool, but also dangerous. I’ll get back to that in a moment. And some people naturally don’t trust people.

It doesn’t matter which type of person you are, it matters that you know which type of person you are. Because if you’re the person who just trusts people — I see you I like you, I trust you — then you have to remember when you’re delegating to make sure you’re putting in checkpoints, that you’re giving people enough information and guidance, and that you’re checking in periodically to make sure that person is on track. That way, neither of you will be disappointed in the end. And it avoids the whole Seagull pooping situation.

And if you’re the person who doesn’t trust people, as far as you can throw them and there’s lots of people, and that is just fine. Just know that about yourself. And again, it comes back to support and checkpoints, make sure that you’re building in enough checkpoints in enough areas, so that their schedule so people don’t think you’re hovering, that there is a goal and an outcome and agenda to each follow up meeting so that you can both build confidence in each other, and credibility with each other as you move through the process.

Scott Rutherford:
So why is this important? I can see why it’s important to an individual manager and to be able to move projects and to be effective in your role as a leader. But taking it maybe a little bit more broadly, if we were talking about building delegation skills within an organization, maybe as a facet of company culture, why is that important? And then what sort of effect can that have at scale?

Joanne Polichetti:
At scale, the impact is enormous. So there’s two things I want to talk about here. And that is talent development. How do we attract and retain talent is just a key challenge in almost every industry out there now, certainly those that are moving forward and growing. And the way to do that is to keep people challenged, interested and engaged, making sure they know they’re adding value. If people are doing the same old work, they’re going to move on and do something more interesting, especially if they’re ambitious. And the organization really wants to keep those people so delegation is the key to that.

Delegation is the vehicle for visibility for people with talent at all levels. So it should be a key part of your talent management talent development process. Likewise, with diverse diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, you need to see everyone, not just the same people.

So one pitfall that sometimes leaders have, even when they’re doing these talent roundtables, is they have the stars previously identified. What this does is it opens the envelope, it broadens the spectrum for more people to emerge as stars when you’re making sure that everybody has the opportunities, through delegation, to shine.

Scott Rutherford:
So I know that you lead a workshop on this topic. Can you talk me through how you structure that workshop and how do you bring people along in the course of a few hours of time?

Joanne Polichetti:
Well, we call it the Delegating Bootcamp and we use that phrase intentionally. Because It is a boot camp. And you know if you join the National Guard, for example, so you’re not in continuous service, but every year you go back, you know, for two weeks of boot camp to refresh, and delegation is one of those skills.

Now it is a skill, it is a process. But how you use that process varies with the individual, and also varies with the complexities of the tasks that you’re delegating.

So we begin the bootcamp process, actually, even before we press the button and start seeing people by asking participants to think about their own challenges, and perhaps dilemmas that they are facing, and to be honest about it, because even if they’re keeping it close to the vest at the beginning, that’s okay. And also to think about upcoming conversations, what they’re concerned about and what they’re excited about in their conversations.

When we move together in the group, we will ask people to of course share — it’s a very interactive session — as they’re willing and able and maintaining confidence, of course, not mentioning names. But talking through those challenges, we ask people to be open to listening to ideas, to be willing to give each other feedback because we move into peer coaching sessions and in the class. So we do want to people during the workshop to be able to be transparent about the challenges they’re facing, to be open to the ideas and the process that we’re presenting.

There’ll be creating an action plan and then moving into small groups for advice, exchange and peer coaching. So you have to be willing to coach as well as listen, be willing to give feedback as well as be willing to receive feedback. And then we want to set up the conclusion of the class to make sure that people get comfortable enough with each other to continue that process after the workshop ends, because it’s through that continued advice exchange. So if they build those learning partnerships, when they’re with us in the workshop, continuing that practice of, you know, sharing your ideas, asking for advice, giving feedback, coaching other managers. That’s how you build, build mastery in your own delegating practice.

Scott Rutherford:
So I wanted to get your thoughts on the learners or the participants who take part in the Bootcamp. I wonder if there is any sort of selection bias that happens with the individuals who take part. In other words, if I’m interested in being a better leader in the business, I might raise my hand to participate in this Bootcamp, others might not necessarily do so. Or to look at it more broadly, if you have an entire organization, let’s say it’s 100 people, do all 100, or should all 100 take part? What’s the best case?

Joanne Polichetti:
The best case is for this to really be an organizational direction and imperative for everyone. And I will give you an example. I was working with a major insurance company. And they were having some leadership issues, the executive of the US consumer business said we are going back to basics, we are going back to identifying core skills, of which delegating is one of them, and every single leader at every single level will be attending the same sessions in mixed level groups.

So on one hand, as the facilitator, I’m going to have to we really want to mix the level groups, we don’t want people at more junior levels to be intimidated. And the executive said to me, he goes, I’m really more worried about the other way around. I think it’s much more intimidating for the senior people, because they have to be the best of the best of the best. And they’re there making commitments, you know, in front of the junior folks to try the skills, he said, and that’s what I want to happen.

Scott Rutherford:
I imagine though, too, it could be an interesting, bottom up conversation too, with an organization, if I’m an individual contributor and I know that leadership broadly across the organization has been tasked with doing a better job at identifying people who want to take initiative and want to move forward and want to stretch and want to flex a little bit. I would think that that might give me a different perspective, or maybe a little bit more bravery to raise my hand and stick my neck out there.

Joanne Polichetti:
Absolutely. And we’re encouraging the leaders attending the Bootcamp to be transparent about the process they’re using. This is how and why I’m asking you to do this. This is this is the match that I’m seeing. This is the stretch that I’m seeing.

So that encourages the person who is being delegated to, to ask questions to identify the kind of support they need. And within the delegating process there is coaching. Because it is important, first of all, to think about the difference between delegating and training.

If someone needs to be told, everybody needs the context and goals for what the task that’s being delegated. But depending on your level of experience, once you know the context and goals, you may be able to just ask that individual what needs happen? What are your next steps? And how will you go about it? If the manager or the person doing the delegating needs to tell people what to do and how to do it, they’re not delegating, they’re training. And training is cool. You know, everybody starts a job, they don’t know what to do, they get trained, that’s awesome. But it’s a different skill set. It’s not delegating, it’s training.

Scott Rutherford:
Once someone has gone through the bootcamp or gone into “the wild,” the business, and applied those skills for a year, and they come back, what do you see is different about the type of maybe questions they’re asking or how they’re engaging with it after, after having been tasked with trying it on and, and doing it for a period of time.

Joanne Polichetti:
What we find is a real marriage between delegation and coaching. And that is a beautiful thing. That’s when people go back and they talk about their manager, someone who’s really helping and supporting them in their career. Because you let go, the more the more what people report is, they’re letting go of the need to direct and leaders are getting more and more comfortable. Giving people a little bit more line, letting people do things differently than they would have done them. And leaders having the confidence say, I’m glad I did that, because it’s so much better than what I would have done. And sometimes that stings a little on the inside. But on reflection, that is a beautiful thing.

Scott Rutherford:
Well, the management adage is, “try to hire people and work with people who are smarter than you.” And if you’re able to put your ego aside, and that’s a great management maxim to live by, have people who are smarter than you, and let them bring you solutions, not problems and give them the latitude to engage. In my own career, I’ve seen that have some pretty wonderful results.

Joanne Polichetti:
And there’s a very interesting thing where people, sometimes managers, they want to help. So somebody’s having an issue and they jump in and they fix. And then they’re not developing their team to be able to solve their own problems to analyze, solve, and view their dilemmas. And they don’t realize that in their helpfulness, or what they perceive is helplessness they’re really holding the talent back from developing.

Joanne Polichetti:
Delegating is the answer to the mystery of DEI. I think that people are not looking at it that way. And once I say those words, are you worried about how to include everybody do something you should be doing every day?

Scott Rutherford:
Let’s dig into that just a little bit more deeply. Because there is… I think we all have our own inherent biases, and one of one of the biases of most people is to build connections with people were perceived to be like us. And of course, that can be an extremely dangerous habit, too, when we’re trying to increase Inclusion, Diversity, Equity within an organization, when we focus on delegation, then breaking that inherent bias has to be one of the very first things we do.

Joanne Polichetti:
Yes. And one of the one of the key things to do in delegating that a practice that I started when I was leading people in securities operation because here I am, I was a relatively new manager, I’d managed a small team of four or five people. But now I had a team of 27 people. So I actually had to track who’s doing what, what are their skills, how do I give them opportunity, and really not go to the same people all the time, who I know are excited and want to do it want to learn, but be very intentional about making sure everybody has opportunity to be seen, and to do more and to grow.

Scott Rutherford:
With the understanding to that the opportunity to grow include sometimes the opportunity to fail.

Joanne Polichetti:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And in that that’s where having training in a standard delegation process is really helpful.

Scott Rutherford:
And the coaching aspect of that too, because it’s okay for if someone doesn’t succeed in an in a stretch project, because that’s a teachable, supportable moment too. And a really important one, in my estimation.

Joanne Polichetti:
Absolutely. And there’s levels of not succeeding. Right, I could miss, you know, a couple of deadlines within this piece. But how am I structuring the follow up as a manager to make sure that, you know, we’re going over the risk assessment together, that we’re seeing potential problems down the line, and we’re doing our best to head them off at the pass.

It’s not just the person that the task is delegated to that’s responsible, the leader is still ultimately responsible. It’s a partnership. And it’s building that partnership through coaching that makes us successful. Always a learning experience. That’s why if you ask successful people, you know, what are the pivotal points in your career that really helped you grow? It’s always those challenges, and how their manager helped them through it.

Scott Rutherford:
My thanks to Joanne Polichetti. The Delegation Bootcamp is available from AXIOM Learning Solutions through our partnership with Zeiberg Consulting, where Joanne serves as a learning consultant. You can find more details on our website, axiomlearningsolutions.com, by going to the learning content catalog, or you can follow the link from this episode’s podcast page.

This podcast is a production of AXIOM Learning Solutions. AXIOM is a learning services company. We work to support L&D teams with the people and resources needed to accomplish virtually any learning project. When you have a learning goal and you need more resources AXIOM can provide the staffing and project support to help you be successful. If you’d like to discuss how axiom can support your learning initiatives, contact us for a complimentary conversation at axiomlearningsolutions.com.

Thanks once again for listening to the AXIOM Insights Podcast.